Charles Phillips Guide
To entries for proposed Southern Railway and its predecessors, locomotives.

BOOKS
 
Ian Allan
 
DRUMMOND LOCOMOTIVES - B. Haresnape & P. Rowledge - 1982
Dugald Drummond
Drummond 0-8-0 Goods Page 11. Pre 1907 design 0-8-0 Goods using his F13/E14 4-6-0 boiler mentioned in an article in the Railway World Annual of 1981 by D. W. Winkworth.
 
MAUNSELL LOCOMOTIVES - A Pictorial History by B. Haresnape - 1977
Richard Edward Lloyd Maunsell
South Eastern & Chatham Railway    
2-8-0T Page 11. 1918 design 2-8-0T locomotive for the heavy, short-distance London area goods traffic.
Southern Railway    
0-6-0T Page 14. 1927 design shunter class Y.
4-4-0 Page 14. 1928 design three-cylinder, cut down Lord Nelson.
4-6-2 Page 16. 1933 design four-cylnder for the Eastern Section Continental trains.
2-6-2 Page 16. 1934 design three-cylinder large mixed-traffic engine.
4-6-2 + 2-6-4T Page 16. 1935 design Beyer-Garratt for the Eastern Section Continental trains.
4-8-0 Page 16. 1935 design four-cylinder for heavy goods .
2-6-2T Page 17. 1936 design outside-cylinder engine accepted, having evolved from a 0-6-2T of 1927 followed by a 0-6-4T, only to have the order cancelled in October 1936.
 
BULLEID LOCOMOTIVES - A Pictorial History by B. Haresnape - 1977
Oliver Vaughan Snell Bulleid
Southern Railway    
4-8-2 Page 13. 4-8-2 large mixed-traffic engine.
2-8-2 Page 13. 2-8-2 large mixed-traffic engine, version of above, which gained agreement, but he change his mind and designed the 'Merchant Navy' class instead.
 
THE LONDON BRIGHTON AND SOUTH COAST RAILWAY - A Mechanical History of the London & Brighton, the London & Croydon, and the London, Brighton & South Coast Railways from 1839 to 1922 - C Hamilton Ellis - 1960 & 1971 editions
John Chester Craven Page 46 to 91. Craven during his tenure at Brighton was known to have schemed proposed locomotives but details are shadowy but were often tanks for branch lines.
Stroudley 2-4-2 Radial Tank Page 144. Prior to his death in Paris on the 20 December 1889 Stroudley had proposed building a 2-4-2 Radial Tank. Donald Bradley in Part 1 of his history of the locomotives of the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway could find no trace of the proposed locomotive.
Stroudley 2-4-2 Express Page 144. Following on from an illustration in a children's book it has been thought by some to have originated in the Brighton Drawing Office. Donald Bradley in Part 1 of his history of the locomotives of the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway could find no trace of the proposed locomotive.
R Billinton 0-8-0T Page 162. To have been an eight coupled version of the E6 Class for shunting. The two locomotives were built as 0-6-2Ts instead.
R Billinton 4-6-0 Page 169. Prior to his death Billinton was contemplating building a 4-6-0
 
LONDON & SOUTH WESTERN LOCOMOTIVES - H. C. Casserley - 1971
Adams 8ft Single 4-2-2 Page 87. The advent of steam sanding led Adams in 1893 to design an 8ft Single 4-2-2, but realism prevailed and the Class 'X6' 4-4-0 was built instead.
 
THE SOUTH EASTERN AND CHATHAM RAILWAY - O. S. NOCK - 1971
H S Wainwright 4-6-0 1907 Page 146. Due to the increase in traffic Wainwright propossed an inside cylinder non superheated 4-6-0 which had simularities to the E class 4-4-0, but this was not acceptable to the Civil Engineer. Side view sketch on page 147.
H S Wainwright 4-6-0 1911 Page 146. Wainwright's second proposal was an outside cylinder non superheated 4-6-0, but this again was not acceptable to the Civil Engineer. Side view sketch on page 147.
H S Wainwright 0-8-0 1911 Page 146. Wainwright's second proposal of 1911 was an non superheated 0-8-0 for Kentish coalfield traffic, but this again was not acceptable to the Civil Engineer.
 
The Railway Correspondence and Travel Society
 
A Locomotive History of Railways on the Isle of Wight - D. L. Bradley - 1982
Isle of Wight Central Railway Page 17. Letter to Kitson in 1919 re: two six coupled tank locomotives and in reply an offer from Kitson for two 2-6-0T.
Isle of Wight Railway Page 28. Request to Kitson in 1921 re: two 0-6-2T locomotives.
 
Locomotives of the L. B. & S. C. R. - Part 3. - D. L. Bradley - 1974
L Billinton proposed 0-8-0T Page 25. To have been an eight coupled version of the E6 Class for shunting. The two locomotives were built as 0-6-2Ts instead.
L Billinton proposed 2-6-2T Page 134. To have been a tank version of the 'K' Class. Originally F later K2.
L Billinton proposed 4-6-0 Page 143. To have been a tender version of the 'Baltic Tank' Class.
 
The Locomotive History of the London, Chatham & Dover Railway - D. L. Bradley - 1979
Martley 'Premier' Class Six-Coupled Yard Shunters Page 73. Three six coupled tank locomotives ordered November 1865 to be built at Longhedge but order changed in 1867.
Martley 'Metropolitan' Eight-Coupled Goods Tanks Page 73. Martley asked permission to purchase two eight coupled tank locomotives of the type being built for the G. N. R. but the order was cancelled due to overweight.
Martley 'Caliph' Six-Coupled Goods Page 74. Martley due to the cancellation of the above asked permission to purchase two six coupled locomotives in 1867. But the order was cancelled due to the over long waiting for permission and the subsequent purchase of Huz and Buz from Sharp, Stewart & Co.
 
Locomotives of the L. S. W. R. - Part 2. - D. L. Bradley - 1967
Adams Mixed Traffic 4-4-0 Page 34. The Mixed Traffic 4-4-0 locomotives would appear to have been based on the '380' Class but was rejected on account of cost in 1886.
Adams Express 8' 4-2-2 Page 73. The Express 8' 4-2-2 locomotives was based on the contemporary 7' 4-4-0's but was rejected on account of weight on the drivers in 1893.
Drummond Small Wheeled 0-4-4T Page 115. "Drummond considered the building of a pair of Small Wheeled 0-4-4T for use on the Lyme Regis branch. However a cheaper alternative was found in two ex LBSCR Terriers (0-6-0T) with which the branch opened in 1903. "
Drummond 5' 7" 4-6-0 Page 168. Order cancelled by Urie on taking office and replaced by H15 class. The boilers intended for these locomotives used in H15 class.
Drummond G14 and P14 4-6-0's Page 161. Urie ordered the rebuilding of these locomotives as H15 class as soon as hostilities ceased but Maunsell cancelled the order.
 
The Locomotive History of the South Eastern & Chatham Railway - D. L. Bradley - 1980
Wainwright 0-4-4 Tank Page 46. The 0-4-4 Tank locomotive of 1910 was to be a uprated 'H' Class 0-4-4T using the Class 'C' 0-6-0's boiler and cylinders to be known as the 'K' Class. However both this class and the 4-6-2 Tank failed to be built, the 'J' Class being built instead.
Wainwright Atlantic Page 132. The Atlantic locomotive of 1899 was designed for the boat and other express use but was not acceptable to the Civil Engineer the 'D' Class was built instead. In 1903 the design was updated, but again failed to be accepted. Once more in 1906 the drawings were again updated and failed for the final time on axle loading and loading gauge problems.
Wainwright 0-8-0 Goods Page 133. The 0-8-0 Goods locomotives intended to be 'H' Class designed in 1901 as a class of 10 ordered in 1902 was cancelled in favour of Class 'C' 0-6-0's.
Wainwright 0-6-2 Tank Page 133. The 0-6-2 Tank locomotives intended to be a tank version of the 'C' Class, was designed in 1906 but although running numbers were raised no order was placed. In 1910 the design was again looked at but the 'J' Class was built instead.
Wainwright 4-6-0's Page 134. At the time the 4-4-2 was being considered also saw the start of three classes of 4-6-0's being drawn up. The first with outside cylinders in 1906, modified in 1907, updated with inside cylinders and improved firebox design in 1907, and a final design with outside cylinders and a superheater in 1913.
Wainwright 4-4-0 Express Page 135. The 4-4-0 Express locomotives intended to be larger boiler version of the 'E' Class, designed in 1907 but failed on axle loading.
Wainwright 4-6-2 Tank Page 135. The 4-6-2 Tank locomotives intended to be a replacement for the cancelled 0-4-4T 'K' Class, was designed in 1910 but the design was cancelled in 1911 and the 'J' Class was built instead.
Maunsell 4-6-0 Page 103. Maunsell's outside cylinder 4-6-0 design accepted in 1915 including the need for track alterations at two points and two underline bridges to be strengthened. However War pressures on Ashford delayed building commencing, and later events conspired to lead to the E1 4-4-0s being built instead.
Maunsell 2-8-0 Tank Page 136. Maunsell's short term answer for a powerful shunter the 'S' Class 0-6-0ST (rebuilt 'C' Class 0-6-0) was to be a 2-8-0 Tank designed in 1918, but Maunsell was unable to build them due to pressure on Ashford and although redesigned in S. R. days the order was cancelled. The 'Z' Class taking their place in 1929.
Maunsell 0-6-0 Page 10. Maunsell considered rebuilding 30 'C' Class 0-6-0's in 1922, but was unable to build them due to pressure on Ashford and the availability of Woolwich built 'N' Class locomotives in 1924 caused their cancellation.
Wainwright Railcars Page 28. 1903 design for the Isle of Sheppey Light Railway, modified later in the year, followed by an enlarged design in 1904, but to no avail Wainwright turned to Kitson for a solution.
 
Locomotives of the Southern Railway - Part 1 - D. L. Bradley - 1975
Maunsell Eight Coupled Tanks Page 44. Maunsell's 2-8-0 Tank designed of 1918 was redesigned in S. R. days but the order was cancelled. The 'Z' Class taking their place in 1929. Subsequent work on a 2-8-2T version of the 'Z' Class in 1930 for short freight trip locomotives also failed and the 'W' Class designed instead.
Maunsell 2-6-0 Page 54. The 2-6-0 locomotive of 1935 was to be a uprated replacement for the 'Jubilee' Class 0-4-2's using a shortened Class 'N' 2-6-0 boiler but financial constraints and Maunsell's ill health stopped the construction and Bulleid built his 'Q' Class 0-6-0 instead.
Maunsell 3 Cylinder 4-4-0 Page 73. The 4-4-0 of 1928 was intended to be a shortened three cylinder version of the 'Lord Nelson' Class, but was cancelled due to being overweight in favour of Class 'V' 'Schools 4-4-0.
Maunsell 4 Cylinder Pacific Page 74. The 4-6-2 of 1933 was intended to be a four cylinder pacific replacement of the lack lustre 'Lord Nelson' Class, but was cancelled due to being too expensive.
Maunsell Mixed-Traffic 2-6-2 Page 75. The Mixed-Traffic 2-6-2 of 1934 was intended to be used a replacement for 'N' Class and Wainwright 0-6-0's on the Eastern Section heavier duties using a similar boiler to his Pacific. Again the Civil Engineer refused the design.
Maunsell Beyer Garratt 4-6-2 + 2-6-4 Page 76. The Beyer Garratt 4-6-2 + 2-6-4 locomotives of 1935 were intended to overcome axle loading problems of the 1933 Pacific and handle the increasing weights of trains. It was expected they would displace up to seventy odd locomotives. Once again the Civil Engineer refused the design except on the West of England line. Rejection came in October 1934.
Maunsell Heavy Goods 4-8-0 Page 77. The Heavy Goods 4-8-0 locomotives of 1935 were intended to be a replacement for the 'N' Class 2-6-0's on Kent coal trains but provision of extended loops, sidings and block sections pushed up the cost and additional 'S15' Class 4-6-0's were built instead.
Maunsell 2-Cylinder 2-6-2 Tank Page 78. Maunsell's 1936 answer for a medium-size locomotive was a 2-Cylinder 2-6-2 Tank design, but although it fulfilled a need, cancellation came in late 1936 and the Southern had to await the B. R. Standard tank classes.
Maunsell 'Y' Class Six-coupled Goods and Shunting Tank Page 79. A decision was taken in 1927 to replace around 105 six-coupled tank classes. Maunsell came up with a six-coupled Goods and Shunting Tank but after construction commenced the economic down turn caused first delay then cancellation in 1937.
 
Locomotives of the Southern Railway - Part 2 - D. L. Bradley - 1976
Bulleid 3-Cylinder 2-8-2 Page 4. Bulleid's 3-Cylinder 2-8-2 of 1938 attempted to provide at last a decent modern express locomotive. Once again the Civil Engineer vetoed the design on leading truck and weight.
Bulleid 3-Cylinder 4-8-2 Page 4. Bulleid's second try the 3-Cylinder 4-8-2 of 1939 again attempted to provide at last a decent modern express locomotive. Once again the Civil Engineer vetoed the design on long rigid wheelbase and weight.
 
MAGAZINES
 
Back Track
More Eight-Coupled - A Miscellany Volume 21, No.1, January 2007, Pages 47 - 49. Weight diagram for Richard Maunsell's proposed 4-8-0 for Kent coalfield traffic.
Drummond's Dinosaurs Volume 21, No.5, May 2007, Page 320. Readers' Forum - reference to a 4-6-0 and 0-8-0 designated H15 and K15. Original article appeared in Volume 21, No.3, March 2007, Pages 150-157.
MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING (as it turned out) Volume 22, No.8, August 2008, Pages 461-467. Article on the attempt to standardise locomotive designs by the Association of Railway Locomotive Engineers from 1917 onwards. Including weight diagrams and a table of proposed ARLE Standard Locomotive schemes 1917-18. Includes Ashford-designed proposed Standard ARLE 2-8-0 heavy goods engine dated March 1918, and mixed traffic 2-6-0 engine dated March 1918 weight diagrams. The table shows eight Drawing numbers attributed to Ashford, S 1711 2-6-0, S 1712 2-6-0, S 1716 2-6-0, S 1717 2-6-0, S 1734 2-6-0, S 1782 2-6-0, S 1783 2-8-0, S 1824 2-6-0, S 1825 2-8-0.
SOUTHERN EIGHTS Volume 24, No.3, March 2010, Pages 163-167. Article on the various eight coupled locomotives of the LSWR and Southern Railway. Mention of Urie's proposed 4-6-0T for Feltham hump shunting, and Maunsell's 1934 proposal for a 4-8-0.
 
Model Railway Constructor
Lynton and Barnstaple Railway Hunslet 2-4-2T Volume 53, No.621, February 1986, Page 95. Proposal of 1896, drawing in 7mm
Lynton and Barnstaple Railway Hunslet 4-4-0T Volume 52, No.616, September 1985, Page 487. Proposal of 1896 drawing in 7mm
 
Railways South East
The Fruitless Quest Volume Three, No.2 Summer 1992, Page 62. An overview of the work of W. G. HOOLEY. Including weight diagrams of W-785, E21118, W-2276B, W-2512, and W-2800. Plus addition drawing number lists.
More Light on the Bulleid 4-6-2s Volume Three. No.1 Winter 1991/92, Page 18. A further look at the origins of the various Bulleid classes of locomotives, together with a selection of steam, and electric diagram register numbers and weight diagrams. Mention also of Maunsell's 1933/34 onwards proposals for both steam and electric. This article is a follow on of Volume Two. No.3 Winter 1990/91, Page 123 Attempts to Torpedo the Merchant Navy Class.
Letters - The Fruitless Quest Volume Three. No.3 Winter 1992/93, Page 177. A comment by E. S. Youldon on the special boiler for 'Nelson' 857.
 
The Railway Magazine
Locomotive Design on the Southern Railway-1 03-04/1949, Vol 95-580, Page 85. Article - abstract of a paper "History of the Southern Railway Locomotives to 1938" by Mr C S Cocks - Inst Loco Engineers - diagram of proposed LBSCR 2-6-2T 1919
Locomotive Design on the Southern Railway-2 05-06/1949, Vol 95-581, Page 153. Article - abstract of a paper "History of the Southern Railway Locomotives to 1938" by Mr C S Cocks - Inst Loco Engineers - diagram of proposed 4-8-0, 4-6-2 of 1933 and 3-cylinder 2-6-2 of 1934.
 
The Southern Way
The Urie 4-8-0 Issue No.3 April 2008, Page 23. Article - On a proposed replacement for the un-built Drummond pre 1907 0-8-0 by Urie, which was schemed around the time of the H15s - Weight diagram of proposed LSWR 4-8-0 1919.



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